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August 25, 2007

Comments

Ricky Scirocco's brain

Who wrote this article? Do you even live in Somerville? Legal immingration made this nation great, you dumb prick, NOT the ILLEGAL immigration wave we're seeing! This illegal wave has turned East Somerville into english as a second language haven.

Have you ever thought about what the crime rate in Brazil is? Do you not think that all these hordes rushing here won't bring a few bad apples?

Get your head out of your ass. Even the illegals who come here say "you have to close the door!". Ask them and even they will tell you this can't go on much longer. It's only you liberals living on some fantasy island that want things to continue going the way they are.

Dumbest article yet by SN - and that is saying a lot.

John

The first poster was right on nearly every point. This article was a disaster... well written, but poorly researched and thought out. It's no wonder that their isn't a "by line" included with the article.

Allison

Thank you for writing this. I *do* live in Somerville - I have for nearly 18 years and its the community that makes it wonderful. I'm disheartened by the latest nation wide backlash against immigrants - those who are legal feeling unwelcome - and now leaving our fair city. And as for the illegal, they are here for so many reasons - and its not an easy solution but treating illegal immigrants as something less then human is not the answer. Neither was the latest bill proposed by Congress.

And re the first poster - just saying "close the door" doesn't make it happen - the problem is a lot more complex then you make it out to sound. Just closing the door has never worked (See the Great Wall and the dynasties there, see Rome, see Byzantium, see Egpyt - see any great empire that tried to shut out the world - it doesn't work). Having a full open door policy isn't bright either. But denying people who are here health and schooling just makes our community less safe - period. Think of it this way - without the ability to get emergency medical help we could help promote the resurgence of nasty diseases. Without providing schooling we now put children on the street with nothing to do and no skills to help make them productive members of society. You say close the door and ship em back - well how do you tell the legal from the illegal? How do you do that in such a way that *doesn't* make the legal immigrants feel violated and unwelcome? Why is our Brazilian community leaving? We need to find the balance - and that is the "liberal" and "progressive" view. I'd also argue its the right view for America as to be honest, I'm all for America bringing in the best, the brightest, the hardest working to our nation - its what will keep us the greatest nation.

~Allison


Ricky Scirocco's brain

Allison, you wrote....those who are legal feeling unwelcome - and now leaving our fair city. Huh? When someone gets legal here it is a huge relief for them. They're legal - why would they feel unwelcome? They leave because once they're legal they know they no longer need to live in a sanctuary city full of ILLEGALS. Why would anyone want to hang around in a neighborhood full of people breaking the law and not assimilating?

Denying people health and schooling isn't the solution. You're finally right! Denying people - who are here illegally - a sanctuary is the only solution. When can we get rid of this sanctuary city status? We can't afford it and we have now become a dumping ground for human traffickers. Is that what you want to support? Human traffickers? Shame on you, Allison.

You also ask "well how do you tell the legal from the illegal?" We could just ask them for their ID and proof of citizenship (green card, etc). It's not that hard if you have a police force tasked with enforcing all the laws of the land. Right now the cops don't care if someone is here illegally... they should and maybe will with the new police chief. If a person gets pulled over for any infraction -- and is here illegally -- they should be deported. No long waits or hearings. Just get them out.

I'm all for America bringing in the best, the brightest, the hardest working to our nation... so am I, but legally. You get the difference?

This article and your post is the old way of thinking... the only people that win when you create sanctuary cities is the human traffickers and the employers who want to undercut paying real wages. It's a damn shame that people still can't see that.

Democracy

I disagree... The cross-sector of places and lifestyles comes from the LEGAL immigrants coming from all over the world. The illegal immigrants stay within their little communities. I have not seen a comprehensive estimate of how much illegal immigrants bring into our community versus how much they take away, when you include everything.

>>
a cross-sector of places and lifestyles
>>

James Ford

Democracy,
Ask the people of Newark, NJ how much illegals cost after three good kids were murdered by illegals in that city.

Democracy

I have not followed the NJ events. In what way did their being illegal cause the killing? What was the causal link that led the fact of being an illegal immigrant result in the murder? Without such a link the argument is purely emotional and not very compelling logically.

Ron Newman

That's like asking "what do Jews cost the city" after David Berkowitz committed the Son of Sam murders. It's a ridiculous question.

Democracy

Good analogy, Ron.

Ricky Scirocco's brain

Acutally, that is a stupid analogy! What do Jews have to do with this? We're talking about illegal immigrants - not religions.

Ron, why do Jews always answer the question about their ethnicity by saying they're Jewish? Judaism is a religion - not an ethnicity (like Irish, or Italian, etc). I've never gotten that.

Ron Newman

Fine then, it's like asking "what do Italians cost the city" after some Mafia murder. Still stupid.

Ron Newman

the sole purpose of this post is to see if I can turn off the italic font.

Democracy

Oh yeah, what's the problem with the italics?

Ron Newman

Someone made a comment with an opening tag and didn't bother to close it with . My fix worked for Firefox but not for Safari.

Ricky Scirocco's brain

What worked?

James Ford

That's a terrible analogy, but, quite frankly, it's the kind of thing Ron does everyday her: Throw a red herring in, accuse people of racism, and change the subject. In the Newark case, the crime was perpetrated by people who, by their very presence in this country, were violating our laws. Then, of coourse, you have the violation that took place when they murdered the kids.

If they were illegal Jews, I would still feel the same as I do now. David Berkowitz was a mentally ill man who committed grievous crimes. Nonetheless, he was a native born American. The immigration laws of this country could not have done ANYTHING to stop Berkowitz. If our immigration laws were enforced, those particular Newark murders would have been avoided. If a person who is in this country illegally is deported, they can't very well murder anyone, can they?

I never thought I would see the day were Ron Newman would use the word "stupid" to describe someone else or their opinions. It's probably best for you to avoid such comments, Ron. I'm not particularly impressed with your intellect either.

In any event, stop the race-baiting and bigotry that has really become the calling card of Ron Newman and his Progressive friends.

Ricky Scirocco's brain

James, yeah... it does seem like Ron wants to change the subject from illegal immigration to anti-semitism. I hope he is not an anti-semite as - while I may disagree with many of his posts - he does seem well educated and well meaning.

What a shame that amongst us here in Somerville we now have a group (PDS) that wants to lower union wages, undercut hard working american wages and support human traffickers. Who would have thought that the liberals would be in favor of a form of slavery?

Ron Newman

I'm Jewish, so how could I be an anti-semite? And no, I'm not in favor of anyone being paid slave-labor wages; I'm in favor of legalizing the immigrants so that they aren't subject to this kind of exploitation. (By the way, I don't speak for PDS and have never claimed to do so.)

Racism is rampant

At least on this site.


James Ford

Ron,
I'm not trying to tera you down, but you bring a little bit of information to this site and then push your opinion like you're an expert until someone proves you wrong and you run fromthe issue entirely. Anyone who questions that needs only to look at your postings on the MS-13 story.

Anybody can be an Anti-Semite. Anti-Semintism is aimed at peiople of Semitic descent. While that can apply to nearly any group in the Middel East, it is true that it's generally a term used to describe those who descriminate against the Jews. We can look locally to prove that. Remember Leo Felton? You know, the Jew who was a Nazi and was going to blow up the Zakim bridge and the Holocaust Memorial? He was Jewish and an avowed Anti-Semite. In short, anything is possible.

Disagree on poloitics, just stop the race-baiting. That's all I'm asking.

whatever

Who cares?

Enough is enough!

Enough is enough!

Ricky Scirocco's brain

Enough is enough of what?

Ron, I'd agree to legalize all the illegals here if I didn't know that by doing that you'll be inviting an even bigger of wave of illegals.

Ricky Scirocco's brain

Ok, who did not close the bold

James Ford

I didn't even open the bold. It's a free country... if you've had enough, then leave already. 'Ricky's,' Ron, and others are having an intellectual discussion. If you can't keep up, then keep out!

Democracy

Looks like James Ford did not close the bold. And yes, what is wrong with discussing?

Democracy

Oh, sorry James Ford, I just realized you said you did not close the bold. Hmmm...

Ricky Scirocco's brain

Let me try to close the bold

Democracy

Testing...

Ricky Scirocco's brain

Damn...how can we get rid of the bold?

Ron Newman

Trying to get rid of the bold and italic. No guarantees, but this may work on Firefox at least.

Ron Newman

Didn't work. I give up.

Ron Newman

Oh geez, someone used a "strong" HTML tag. Trying one more time.

Democracy

Testing... Sigh.

Bill Shelton

I believe that our nation's immigration policy is broken, hypocritical, and undermines legitimate authority. I'm not knowledgeable or smart enough to know what the best policy would look like. But I harbor the naive belief that all of us, together, do, if we could figure out how to listening to each other.

Part of this listening would be to confirm the factual basis or lack of basis for assertions that people make, no matter how uncomfortable they may be. For example, there is overwhelming evidence to support Ricky's Brain's assertion that Brazil has a higher crime rate than the U.S. It's murder rate, for example, if four and one-half times higher than ours.

We also need to investigate any assertions of causality. For example, I don't know if "illegal" immigrants from different nations, or from specific nations have a higher crime rate than U.S. citizens and whatever the answer is, why. My guess is that the first generation has a lower crime rate, and that their off spring have a higher crime rate, for reasons that would take a whole other article and commentary to discuss.

With this goal at getting at the underlying evidence, I would ask RB why s/he believes that PDS "wants to lower union wages, undercut hard working american wages and support human traffickers."

to answer your question

In answer to the question above: 'what does being illegal have to do with the murders in Newark?'. Answer: It has everything to do with it. The perpetrators who were illegal had a long history of run-ins with the law, but because Newark chose to be a 'sanctuary' for illegals, they refused to deal with their immigration status. Had they dealt with it and deported them after their first crime (they should be deported as illegals, but even legal immigrants are subject to deportation after committing crimes), these crimes would have never happened. Had these men been deported as they should have been, these 3 black, college-bound kids would be alive today and heading for their first week of class!

James Ford

Bingo! Nice job, 'answer.'

Mathematics Doesn't Lie

Even Congressman Capuano stated this past winter at a Q&A session that illegal immigration must stop. He did stop short, however, of advocating deportation for illegals in the country. He created a very simple mathematical formula: #JOBS X #PEOPLE = THE ECONOMY (I've used 'poetic license' with my recollection - this is not meant to be an exact quote.). You simply cannot continue to add people, no matter who they are, when there is a limited number of empoyment opportunities. Eventually the entrire economy will suffer when you reach the breaking point.

Ignatius J Reilly

I have to agree with Math Doesn't Lie, James and Ricky. The policy of not enforcing immigration policies is very shortsighted and creating a sanctuary city is amazingly dumb. Unless you're a complete noob you realize that some employers here are enticing people - legal or illegally - to increase the supply of cheap workers. An increased supply of cheap workers lowers wages across the board. It's bad for the working person (immigrant and non-immigrant).

Bill, I can't answer for Ricky, but I believe that by the PDS supporting wave after wave of illegal immigration they are in reality supporting those who hire them to reduce real wages and - obviously - helping the human traffickers. I don't think the PDS folks wake up in the morning and say "How can we help unscrupulous employers and those who traffic in humans", but their actions do just that.

Democrats

I think that PDS and the Democratic Party are at least tacitly hurting the workers by their support of illegal immigration. And I think the reason is their bottom line.....the hope of creating more democratic voters! They are more mercenary than the Republicans have ever been, perhaps that's why they complain so much about Republicans....simply to divert attention from their own policies.

William Hurst

People here are either for or against illegal immigration. But, at some point the borders must be closed. Do we agree or disagree? Middle class families (ones with 2 wage earners) making between 80k and 150k a year are not flocking to this country. Poor people are coming here. Just ask the state of California how much illegal immigration is costing them. It is estimated that between 9.5 to 11 billion dollars is spent every year by Californians to house, educate, provide medical benefits, hospitilazation and to incarcerate illegal immigrants. So at what point do we stop people from coming here? Do we wait until the population has reached 350,400,500 million or do we eliminate every bit of open space that we have in this country and close the borders once we hit 1 billion people residing here. I also detest these discussions and the reason for that is, someone always makes this about race. If you are against illegal immigration you must be racist. If you are against something else you are a bigot. No one is entitled to an opinion anymore without being labeled a bigot or a racist.
Please, just once let us have a serious discussion of a topic on this web site. Do we keep the borders open forever or do we close them and at what point in time should this be done?

That's proof you are a racist bigot

That's conclusive proof you are a racist bigot. You can protest all you want.

Somerville Resident Strikes Again

William Hurst politely asks, "Please, just once let us have a serious discussion of a topic on this web site."

That idiot "Somerville Resident" chimes in with the monumentally idiotic comment, "That's conclusive proof you are a racist bigot. You can protest all you want."

People that have no brains and nor good argument always cry racism.

William Hurst

Thank you, "Thats proof you are a racist bigot" your comments once again are foolish.
Maybe Mr. Norton should discontinue this site. Occasionally an intelligent topic is discussed, most of time this site is used by city hall employees who hate the mayor. Or one of the mayors minions out to do his dirty work. You know how someone always seems to "know" what is going on at city hall. With the "racist bigot" comment directed at me the Somerville News forum is starting to sound like the "Shout Out" column at the thursday rag that is being sold.

Democracy

This thread has become a screaming contest. It seems that some people don't want to allow discussion on these issues. I don't know if it's Somerville Resident or who else. I suspect there are a ton of 14-year olds posting comments here and laughing behind our backs.

The Patriot

The terroists win when we think they might be among us.
Wow! If we had thought they were among us in 1991, we might of stopped 9/11. Who would have thought terroists would use "Santuary Cities" to hide near. But that's exactly what happened. The terroists came here to hide,
and,like with all waves on immigration, the gangs came too, like MS-13. Crime, terroists, drugs, disease. We have all the effects of misguided liberal thinking. It's so bad, even Ted Kennedy has acquiesed to allow a fence to be built, well, at least part of one.
Why not buid a 20 foot high wall like the Wall of China,
and bury the concrete 20 feet deep. Then we can start to assimilate the people who are here illegally. I don't blame the illegals from coming, I blame the numb-scull liberal do-gooders for the mess we're in. If they didn't have their heads up their ass, maybe, just maybe,
Bush would never have been elected (or at least come close enough to steal it).

retards

Watch all that talk about terrorists. You may end up on the list yourself one day.

From Wikipedia

The Mariel boatlift was a mass movement of Cubans who departed from Cuba's Mariel Harbor for the United States between April 15 and October 31, 1980.

The boatlift was precipitated by a sharp downturn in the Cuban economy, leading to simmering internal tensions on the island and a bid by up to 10,000 Cubans to gain asylum in the Peruvian embassy.

The Cuban government subsequently announced that anyone who wanted to leave could do so, and an impromptu exodus organized by Cuban-Americans with the agreement of Cuban President Fidel Castro was underway. The boatlift began to have negative political implications for U.S. President Jimmy Carter when it was discovered that a number of the exiles had been released from Cuban jails and mental health facilities. The exodus was ended by mutual agreement between the two governments in October 1980. By that time up to 125,000 Cubans had made the journey to Florida.

Mole Fan

"we want the Mole"..."we want the Mole"..."we want the Mole"...
Come on and chant with me !!

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